the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
Irradiance and cloud optical properties from solar photovoltaic systems
James Barry
Stefanie Meilinger
Klaus Pfeilsticker
Anna Herman-Czezuch
Nicola Kimiaie
Christopher Schirrmeister
Rone Yousif
Tina Buchmann
Johannes Grabenstein
Hartwig Deneke
Jonas Witthuhn
Claudia Emde
Felix Gödde
Bernhard Mayer
Leonhard Scheck
Marion Schroedter-Homscheidt
Philipp Hofbauer
Matthias Struck
Abstract. Solar photovoltaic power output is modulated by atmospheric aerosols and clouds and thus contains valuable information on the optical properties of the atmosphere. As a ground-based data source with high spatiotemporal resolution it has great potential to complement other ground-based solar irradiance measurements as well as those of weather models and satellites, thus leading to an improved characterisation of global horizontal irradiance. In this work several algorithms are presented that can retrieve global tilted and horizontal irradiance and atmospheric optical properties from solar photovoltaic data and/or pyranometer measurements. Specifically, the aerosol (cloud) optical depth is inferred during clear sky (completely overcast) conditions. The method is tested on data from two measurement campaigns that took place in Allgäu, Germany in autumn 2018 and summer 2019, and the results are compared with local pyranometer measurements as well as satellite and weather model data. Using power data measured at 1 Hz and averaged to 1 minute resolution, the hourly global horizontal irradiance is extracted with a mean bias error compared to concurrent pyranometer measurements of 11.45 W m−2, averaged over the two campaigns, whereas for the retrieval using coarser 15 minute power data the mean bias error is 16.39 W m−2.
During completely overcast periods the cloud optical depth is extracted from photovoltaic power using a lookup table method based on a one-dimensional radiative transfer simulation, and the results are compared to both satellite retrievals as well as data from the COSMO weather model. Potential applications of this approach for extracting cloud optical properties are discussed, as well as certain limitations, such as the representation of 3D radiative effects that occur under broken cloud conditions. In principle this method could provide an unprecedented amount of ground-based data on both irradiance and optical properties of the atmosphere, as long as the required photovoltaic power data are available and are properly pre-screened to remove unwanted artefacts in the signal. Possible solutions to this problem are discussed in the context of future work.
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James Barry et al.
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RC1: 'Comment on amt-2022-335', Anonymous Referee #1, 12 May 2023
This paper presents a method to calculate the global irradiance at the surface and some atmospheric properties using photovoltaic panels. To achieve this, the inversion algorithm accommodates both a description of the hardware and one of the characteristic state of the atmosphere.
I found the article very well written, clear in exposition and scientifically correct in its premises, logical development and description of results. But at the same time it is by no means easy to digest. The text as a whole is very complex, with constant cross-references between one section and the next, and I am not sure it is easily approached by the average reader. This is due to the need to describe all those components of the experiment that determine, at the end of the chain, the final accuracy of the inversion.
In another situation, with another article, I would have requested the authors to streamline the text and make it easier for a wider audience to understand. In this case, however, it is clear to me that this is not easy, given the experimental complexity of the task the authors are facing.
So, as far as I am concerned, I am asking for minor revisions. These are mostly non-critical changes but should add some additional detail regarding the setup of the simulations and the reach and the description of the results.
General considerations after reading the full text- It is surprising that the mean bias error increases with wider temporal aggregations. Can the authors comment on this?
- I assume that the efficiency of the photovoltaic modules is highest in clear sky conditions and lowest in overcast conditions. If correct, how does the lower efficiency relate to the accuracy of the derived cloud optical light extinction? Is it a linear relationship?
- COD_PV is verified (at least in my eyes it is not a validation) with the values of COSMO and APOLLO_NG. But if I am not mistaken, COSMO and APOLLO_NG are at the same time the source of some critical inversion inputs. In this sense it is more of a verification than a validation. Since there are now established methods for determining even the optical thickness of clouds from ground-based measurements (e.g., www.atmos-meas-tech.net/8/1361/2015/), I wonder if it is not worth trying to find some stations in the area of interest that provide true validation as independent.
Specific comments
Abstract, L 7: it is stated that results on COD and AOD will be presented. While several scatterplots are presented and discussed for COD in the text, I found no mention of any retrieval of AOD. One might guess that the results with COD<2 contain, within them, also those of AOD. If true, then the text of the abstract is misleading, as one would expect a retrieval of atmospheric opacity directly due to aerosols. This would probably explain why, for the generation of LUTs with MYSTIC, there is no additional dimension referring to aerosols.
Introduction, L50 and ff: Can the authors add a sentence or two summurazing the accuracy of the cited methods?P3 L73: what is the reasoning behind the 5 Wm-2 desired threshold?
P5 L139-142: "It can be shown using the diode model [see for instance Sauer (1994); Abe et al. (2020)] that the maximum power point (MPP) current generated by a PV module is linearly dependent on the incident irradiance, and only very weakly dependent on temperature."
Surprising. But still no info on the nature of the MPP-irradiance under overcast skies.Eq.1 and 2: even if obvious, \$tau is not introduced in the text. This also leaves the room open for me to ask how \$tau infleunces Eq.1 and 2. Is \$tau role linear on non-linear?
How about a direct aerosol radiative effect at play? Is this embedded in the simulations based on the OPAC database?
P14 L 330 : AOD = 0.01 and AOD = 1. What is the typical AOD for dust events reaching Central Europe?
P14 Section 2.3.5: I have two questions with respect to the setup of MYSTIC and its range of application.
(1) why wasn't MYSTIC also equipped with an additional dimension of AOD? I would expect that, especially in intermediate situations of broken cloudiness, the presence of aerosols may not only change the intensity of irradiance but also its spectral behavior. The latter is precisely identified by the authors as one of the factors contributing to the inversion uncertainty.
(2) Later on in the text, Table 9 shows the limits of applicability of MYSTIC, but in the main text there is no dicussion on the reasons why exaclty those values are reported.P17 L 392: which overlap scheme for clouds? Can the authors be more specific on this point?
P22 onward, Tables reporting biases: (1) can the authors add to the captions the information on the asterisk purpose, so that the reader does not have to look through the text? (2) Would it be informative to report also these values expressed in %?
Spotted typos
P14 L 329: lookup table
P14 L 341: \citep instead of \cite for Crnivec and Mayer 2019Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/amt-2022-335-RC1 -
AC1: 'Reply on RC1', James Barry, 03 Jul 2023
This paper presents a method to calculate the global irradiance at the surface and some atmospheric properties using photovoltaic panels. To achieve this, the inversion algorithm accommodates both a description of the hardware and one of the characteristic state of the atmosphere.
I found the article very well written, clear in exposition and scientifically correct in its premises, logical development and description of results. But at the same time it is by no means easy to digest. The text as a whole is very complex, with constant cross-references between one section and the next, and I am not sure it is easily approached by the average reader. This is due to the need to describe all those components of the experiment that determine, at the end of the chain, the final accuracy of the inversion.
In another situation, with another article, I would have requested the authors to streamline the text and make it easier for a wider audience to understand. In this case, however, it is clear to me that this is not easy, given the experimental complexity of the task the authors are facing.
So, as far as I am concerned, I am asking for minor revisions. These are mostly non-critical changes but should add some additional detail regarding the setup of the simulations and the reach and the description of the results.
General considerations after reading the full text
- It is surprising that the mean bias error increases with wider temporal aggregations. Can the authors comment on this?
Our response: Indeed, one would expect the bias to increase with coarser time resolution. In our case, the opposite effect is seen, which is due to the bias being dominated by errors in the calibration procedure. Even though the calibration itself is always performed with 15-minute data under clear sky conditions, the calibration algorithm performs better when taking high-resolution data that has been aggregated to 15 minutes. One reason for this is simply that the AÜW measurements of PV power every 15 minutes are based on energy meter readings for the last 15 minutes, which were shifted by 7.5 minutes, as described in section 3.1. This was done in order to bring different data sources with different aggregation procedures into alignment. Using the 1 Hz data leads to better 15 minute averages, and thus more accurate calibration.
Another reason could be that certain outliers in the 15-minute data should have been excluded from the inversion (see the points forming horizontal lines in Figure 6). We checked this and found that this would improve the RMSE, but not the bias, which indeed comes from certain systems with poor calibration. For completeness, these erroneous values are excluded, and the results recalculated.
- I assume that the efficiency of the photovoltaic modules is highest in clear sky conditions and lowest in overcast conditions. If correct, how does the lower efficiency relate to the accuracy of the derived cloud optical light extinction? Is it a linear relationship?
Our response: We fully appreciate the question! The efficiency of a solar cell is a function of both irradiance and temperature, and can be shown to be logarithmically proportional to irradiance and linearly proportional to temperature. In that sense any inaccuracies in the PV model parameters will have a larger effect in the inverted irradiance under low light conditions. Indeed, this is the main source of error in the retrievals – the more parameters used to model the PV power the greater the error in the inverted irradiance.
- COD_PV is verified (at least in my eyes it is not a validation) with the values of COSMO and APOLLO_NG. But if I am not mistaken, COSMO and APOLLO_NG are at the same time the source of some critical inversion inputs. In this sense it is more of a verification than a validation. Since there are now established methods for determining even the optical thickness of clouds from ground-based measurements (e.g., www.atmos-meas-tech.net/8/1361/2015/), I wonder if it is not worth trying to find some stations in the area of interest that provide true validation as independent.
Our response: That is partly correct, the inverted COD is not “validated” with COSMO and APOLLO_NG but rather simply compared to the COD from those sources. APOLLO_NG is however not used as input, but COSMO is, specifically the atmospheric composition from COSMO is used for the radiative transfer simulations.
Indeed, it would be more appropriate to validate the PV-based COD with another ground-based measurement, however to our knowledge there were no appropriate meteorological stations in the area that could have been used for this purpose. Although there are several DWD stations in the area (in Kempten, Oberstdorf and Hohenpeissenberg), these provide information on irradiance (direct and diffuse), but not on cloud optical properties (see Becker and Behrens, 2012). Thus, a true validation would have to be done for another dataset with PV systems closer to a measurement station that has ground-based retrievals of COD. This will be done in future field experiments.
Specific comments
Abstract, L 7: it is stated that results on COD and AOD will be presented. While several scatterplots are presented and discussed for COD in the text, I found no mention of any retrieval of AOD. One might guess that the results with COD<2 contain, within them, also those of AOD. If true, then the text of the abstract is misleading, as one would expect a retrieval of atmospheric opacity directly due to aerosols. This would probably explain why, for the generation of LUTs with MYSTIC, there is no additional dimension referring to aerosols.Our response: We agree that this could be seen as misleading. In this paper, the retrieval of AOD was not explicitly discussed, since the results obtained with this method show large biases due calibration error, coupled with the very small AOD in the Allgäu region (as discussed in the paragraph starting in L333). However, the retrievals of GHI under clear sky conditions implicitly contain AOD, since the optical depth is used in this case as a proxy to “reverse transpose” the tilted irradiance to horizontal irradiance. Perhaps this was not clearly communicated. If one looks at the schematic diagram in Figure 2, in order to retrieve GHI under clear sky conditions the algorithm first finds the AOD and then uses the 2D LUT to retrieve the direct and diffuse components, adding up to the GHI.
Introduction, L50 and ff: Can the authors add a sentence or two summarizing the accuracy of the cited methods?
Our response. The method described in Engerer and Mills (2014) use a PV-based clear sky index and can achieve an MBE of 1.09% and a mean absolute percentage error (MAPE) of 4.1% for the PV power output under clear sky conditions, but the accuracy diminishes for partly cloudy skies, as expected (reaching up to 50% MAPE). Killinger et al. (2016) achieve an MBE of between -3.9% and -9.8% for the GHI, depending on the empirical model used for irradiance transposition. Marion and Smith (2017) achieve an MBE for the GHI of within ±1.5% using south-facing PV modules at 10°, 25° and 40° tilt angles. Halilovic et al. (2019) use an analytical method for the reverse transposition of GTI to GHI and achieve an MBE of between 0.1% and 2.1% for the resulting GHI, using data from silicon reference cell measurements at different tile and azimuth angles.
P3 L73: what is the reasoning behind the 5 Wm-2 desired threshold?
Our response: as discussed in the second paragraph of the introduction (L31-L49), state-of-the art satellite data has a mean bias of the order of 5 W m-2. In addition, this level of accuracy corresponds to the target accuracy for global radiation measurements as part of the Baseline Surface Radiation Network, which was established within the frame of the World Climate Research Programme (McArthur, 2005). In that sense it would be desirable to reach this level of accuracy. However, even if this is not achieved, ground-based irradiance measurements and/or retrievals have the added advantage of superior spatiotemporal resolution, if the necessary data is available.
P5 L139-142: “It can be shown using the diode model [see for instance Sauer (1994); Abe et al. (2020)] that the maximum power point (MPP) current generated by a PV module is linearly dependent on the incident irradiance, and only very weakly dependent on temperature.”
Surprising. But still no info on the nature of the MPP-irradiance under overcast skies.Our response: It is important here to distinguish between current and voltage. In this work the power was used as the data source for inversion, which leads to the added complication that although MPP current is linearly proportional to irradiance, the MPP voltage is logarithmically proportional to irradiance, so that the overall efficiency also shows such a logarithmic dependence. The MPP power is of course strongly dependent on temperature, but this comes from the voltage, not the current – the latter has only a very weak dependence on temperature.
Eq.1 and 2: even if obvious, \$tau is not introduced in the text. This also leaves the room open for me to ask how \$tau infleunces Eq.1 and 2. Is \$tau role linear on non-linear?
Our response: This is corrected for. $\tau$ is simply a subscript indicating that an optical model has been employed to account for absorption and reflection by the glass surface of the PV module. Its effect is largely dependent on the angle of incidence, as discussed in Appendix A2. The final inverted GHI to be compared with other sources is then defined in Eq. 8 as the irradiance “above” the glass surface, i.e., the optical model must also be taken into account in the inversion.
How about a direct aerosol radiative effect at play? Is this embedded in the simulations based on the OPAC database?
Our response: Aerosols are considered in different parts of the model chain. For the forward model calibration (PVCAL) under clear sky conditions, the Aeronet data from the Hochschule Kempten is used to find the Ångstrom parameters, which are then combined with the OPAC data base (using the continental average setting) to obtain an accurate irradiance proxy for calibration. For the inversion, the Aeronet data and corresponding Ångstrom parameters are not used, however the OPAC setting remains. This means that there is implicit aerosol information on aerosol type in both the AOD and COD lookup tables.
P14 L 330 : AOD = 0.01 and AOD = 1. What is the typical AOD for dust events reaching Central Europe?
Our response: The typical dust event reaching Europe does not have such a high AOD, but is rather characterised by small values of the Ångstrom exponent less than 1, indicating the presence of coarser dust particles. For example, one study of the climatology of dust events found a mean AOD of 0.155, 0.32 and 0.122 for dust plumes in southern, central and northern Europe (Mandija et al., 2018). Indeed, during the time between September 2018 and July 2019, the AOD at 500nm measured by the AERONET station on the rooftop of the Hochschule Kempten did not exceed 0.5. Just before the second measurement campaign, on the 25th and 26th of June 2019, a dust event hit Europe. In this case the loglinear fit from AERONET data shows an Ångstrom exponent of around 0.6, indicating the presence of dust particles. However, the AOD on these days was only about 0.23 at 500nm.
P14 Section 2.3.5: I have two questions with respect to the setup of MYSTIC and its range of application.
(1) why wasn’t MYSTIC also equipped with an additional dimension of AOD? I would expect that, especially in intermediate situations of broken cloudiness, the presence of aerosols may not only change the intensity of irradiance but also its spectral behaviour. The latter is precisely identified by the authors as one of the factors contributing to the inversion uncertainty.Our response: Firstly, one must understand that the MYSTIC lookup table (based on 3D simulations) was simply used to convert the inverted tilted irradiance (GTI) to horizontal irradiance (GHI) under broken cloud conditions. Extensive sensitivity studies were carried out to understand the dependence of the relationship between tilted and horizontal irradiance on different atmospheric parameters such as AOD, albedo, liquid water content, etc. It turns out that AOD has no significant influence on this relationship, and that the most important parameters are the system geometry, sun position and the cloud fraction. The AOD was used in the context of the DISORT-based lookup table under clear sky conditions, in order to extract the GHI.
(2) Later on in the text, Table 9 shows the limits of applicability of MYSTIC, but in the main text there is no discussion on the reasons why exactly those values are reported.Our response: There are three major reasons for the choice of limits of the MYSTIC LUT. Firstly, despite several optimisations like the reduction of the number of photons used for the Monte Carlo simulations, the computational demand for calculating the LUT is high. For this reason, 20 degrees was chosen as the lower limit for the SZA, since in the latitudes under investigation no smaller values occur. Similar considerations apply to the tilt angle of PV panels – in Allgäu, Germany one rarely encounters title angles larger than 50 degrees.
The second limiting factor relates to the derivation of a cloud mask and cloud fraction from the radiation measurements (see Eq. 12 in the text). Firstly, this is only possible when there is direct line of sight between the sun and the module or sensor, which limits the relative azimuth angle between the sun and the PV panel. Secondly, the derivation of a cloud fraction from temporally resolved radiation measurements becomes unprecise at large SZAs for geometrical reasons, so that the upper limit of the SZA was set to 60 degrees.
Finally, the cloud fraction limits are determined by two factors: Firstly, the LUT model was developed and tested for partly cloudy situations. The special cases of 0% and 100% cloud fraction were considered separately with the DISORT-based LUTs, as other parameters like AOD and COD become relevant here. Secondly, the exact cloud fraction limits (0.13 and 0.82) given in table 9 are constrained by the available cloud scenes from LES simulations.
P17 L 392: which overlap scheme for clouds? Can the authors be more specific on this point?
Our response: For comparison with the cloud optical depths extracted from the PV systems, a two-dimensional COD field must be computed from the three-dimensional cloud variables generated by the COSMO model. For each grid cell, a cloud fraction variable in COSMO indicates which fraction of the cell is covered by clouds. To derive a vertically integrated COD we need to make an assumption as to how these clouds overlap in a model column. Following Scheck et al. (2018), we adopt the often used random-maximum cloud overlap assumption and employ the method of Matricardi (2005) to compute for each model column the vertically integrated COD for a number of subcolumns. From these subcolumn values we derive a mean COD for the cloudy part of the column. A total COD is then computed as the average of the column mean COD over 5 by 5 columns centred around the column containing the relevant ground station.
P22 onward, Tables reporting biases: (1) can the authors add to the captions the information on the asterisk purpose, so that the reader does not have to look through the text? (2) Would it be informative to report also these values expressed in %?
Our response: This is now corrected for in the text, and both RMSE and MBE are expressed in %.
Spotted typos
P14 L 329: lookup table
P14 L 341: \citep instead of \cite for Crnivec and Mayer 2019Our response: these two typos are corrected in the text.
References
Becker, R. and Behrens, K.: Quality assessment of heterogeneous surface radiation network data, Adv. Sci. Res., 8, 93–97, https://doi.org/10.5194/asr-8-93-2012, 2012.
Engerer, N. A. and Mills, F. P.: KPV: A clear-sky index for photovoltaics, Solar Energy, 105, 679–693, https://doi.org/10.1016/J.SOLENER.2014.04.019, 2014.
Halilovic, S., Bright, J. M., Herzberg, W., and Killinger, S.: An analytical approach for estimating the global horizontal from the global tilted irradiance, Solar Energy, 188, 1042–1053, https://doi.org/10.1016/J.SOLENER.2019.06.027, 2019.
Killinger, S., Braam, F., Müller, B., Wille-Haussmann, B., and McKenna, R.: Projection of power generation between differently-oriented PV systems, Solar Energy, 136, 153–165, https://doi.org/10.1016/J.SOLENER.2016.06.075, 2016.
Mandija, F., Chavez-Perez, V. M., Nieto, R., Sicard, M., Danylevsky, V., Añel, J. A., and Gimeno, L.: The climatology of dust events over the European continent using data of the BSC-DREAM8b model, Atmos Res, 209, 144–162, https://doi.org/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.atmosres.2018.03.006, 2018.
Matricardi, M.: The inclusion of aerosols and clouds in RTIASI, the ECMWF fast radiative transfer model for the infrared atmospheric sounding interferometer., https://doi.org/10.21957/1krvb28ql, 2005.
McArthur, L. J. B.: Baseline Surface Radiation Network (BSRN). Operations Manual Version 2.1, Downsview, Ontario, 2005.
Scheck, L., Weissmann, M., and Mayer, B.: Efficient Methods to Account for Cloud-Top Inclination and Cloud Overlap in Synthetic Visible Satellite Images Efficient Methods to Account for Cloud-Top Inclination and Cloud Overlap in Synthetic Visible Satellite Images, 35, 665–685, https://doi.org/10.1175/JTECH-D-17-0057.1, 2018.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/amt-2022-335-AC1
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RC2: 'Comment on amt-2022-335', Anonymous Referee #2, 17 May 2023
This is an interesting study that addresses a very relevant topic, namely the use of PV as a surrogate radiation measurement device to acquire a much larger spatial coverage than the current relatively sparse coverage of radiation measurement devices.
In my view, the work is very well done in terms of approach and analysis. My comments merely address the presentation and availability of software and data. These points should be easily addressed hence I have suggested minor revisions.
I have a couple of issues that I would like to point out. First concerning open sciences and the lack thereof in the review process. This maybe more a complaint to AMT than to the authors' although I would also encourage them to embrace open science a bit more.
1. This review process cannot be done properly if the authors provide their data in a closed github repository, for which the anonymous reviewers need to reveal themselves in order to see the software. This goes against my definition of open science in my view, and in my view should be prohibited by the journal. I do not think this level of secrecy is constructive nor necessary.
2. In line with the previous comments. It would be nice if all software is made available open source, because from the paper it is not entirely clear what are datasets and what are tools that the readers can use themselves to reproduce or slightly alter the setups. Since the respository is closed, the reviewers cannot check.
Then concerning the manuscript:
1. I would like the authors to reflect more about the feasibilty of this endeavor for operational use. They have tested this for a well designed campaign / setup, but to me it is still a bit unclear whether the authors, based on their findings, expect this to be a realistic road to operational use. They are very careful in their comments in 588, and I would like to challenge them to be a bit more outspoken.
2. Table 9. I would like the authors to comment a bit more on the restrictions presented in the _limits_ column. Are these very restrictive? How much does this influence potential operational use in the future?
3. I find it a little worrying that the authors base their weather model data on a model that according to their own comments went into retiring in 2021. Why not base the results on ICON? If this ever should be come a method for operational use it makes a lot more sense to compare it against the local state of the art.
4. Eq. 10: what is the origin of this equation and what is the physics behind it?
5. Eq. 12: how sensitive are results to the chosen thresholds?
6. Line 344. I do not understand how a PV setup sees the whole sky. Please clarify.
7. Figure 8: The 15-min averages have an almost twice as large bias compared to the 1-min data. Is this because the added measurements are so much worse?
If these points are addressed, I think the authors provide a nice basis for future work on this topic. I am glad that their results are based on physics.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/amt-2022-335-RC2 -
AC2: 'Reply on RC2', James Barry, 03 Jul 2023
This is an interesting study that addresses a very relevant topic, namely the use of PV as a surrogate radiation measurement device to acquire a much larger spatial coverage than the current relatively sparse coverage of radiation measurement devices.
In my view, the work is very well done in terms of approach and analysis. My comments merely address the presentation and availability of software and data. These points should be easily addressed hence I have suggested minor revisions.
I have a couple of issues that I would like to point out. First concerning open sciences and the lack thereof in the review process. This maybe more a complaint to AMT than to the authors although I would also encourage them to embrace open science a bit more.
- This review process cannot be done properly if the authors provide their data in a closed github repository, for which the anonymous reviewers need to reveal themselves in order to see the software. This goes against my definition of open science in my view, and in my view should be prohibited by the journal. I do not think this level of secrecy is constructive nor necessary.
- In line with the previous comments. It would be nice if all software is made available open source, because from the paper it is not entirely clear what are datasets and what are tools that the readers can use themselves to reproduce or slightly alter the setups. Since the repository is closed, the reviewers cannot check.
Our response: The software will be made open source once the manuscript is published. The decision to wait until publication was approved by the journal.
Then concerning the manuscript:
- I would like the authors to reflect more about the feasibility of this endeavour for operational use. They have tested this for a well-designed campaign / setup, but to me it is still a bit unclear whether the authors, based on their findings, expect this to be a realistic road to operational use. They are very careful in their comments in 588, and I would like to challenge them to be a bit more outspoken.
Our response: The algorithm presented here is simply the first step in using PV data as an input for data assimilation in weather models. It is clear from the work that this is feasible, however as pointed out, moving towards operational use would require several further steps. The largest source of bias comes from the calibration step, in particular the effect of temperature. Access to direct current (DC) data on the inverter level would allow a much more accurate extraction of the irradiance, without the confounding effect of temperature, since the dependence of MPP current on temperature is an order of magnitude smaller than that of MPP voltage and power. Since inverter data is commonly available in industry, this should be possible provided one has the legal right to access the data. Additionally, the data pre-processing needs to be automated. For instance, one needs to exclude PV systems and/or data subsets that do not meet certain criteria such as shading of PV modules or inverter clipping. This could be done by developing a hybrid approach using both physical modelling and artificial intelligence (AI) algorithms for pattern recognition. In addition, the calibration procedure itself could be augmented with AI, to find the unknown parameters more effectively. Once these aspects are overcome and appropriate agreements with industry partners are made for access to the data, there should be nothing standing in the way of operational use.
- Table 9. I would like the authors to comment a bit more on the restrictions presented in the _limits_ column. Are these very restrictive? How much does this influence potential operational use in the future?
Our response: This is discussed in more detail in the response to referee 1. As shown in Figure 2 in the preprint (this figure is updated to make it more explicit, and the label for DISORT is changed to 1D LUT), the algorithm uses different lookup tables depending on the prevailing conditions. For more stable weather conditions such as clear or cloudy skies, the DISORT-based LUT is used for AOD or COD, whereas for broken cloud conditions the MYSTIC LUT is used, but in this case only to convert tilted to horizontal irradiance. The limits for the MYSTIC LUT were also chosen to reduce computational time and could be extended slightly, with regards the SZA and tilt angles. For operational use, the data would be separated based on cloud fraction, and one would decide whether to use either the DISORT or MYSTIC LUTs on a case-by-case basis. This would then dictate exactly which limits are chosen for the MYSTIC 3D LUT.
- I find it a little worrying that the authors base their weather model data on a model that according to their own comments went into retiring in 2021. Why not base the results on ICON? If this ever should become a method for operational use it makes a lot more sense to compare it against the local state of the art.
Our response: That is correct, however the data made available by the DWD for validation is from the COSMO model, since at the time of the measurement campaigns this model was the state of the art at the German weather centre.
- 10: what is the origin of this equation and what is the physics behind it?
Our response: The liquid water content (LWC) of a cloud describes the mass of water droplets per unit volume, and the liquid water path (LWP) is the integral of the LWC over the height of the cloud, i.e. LWP = LWC∙h (1) with h being der vertical extension of the cloud. The LWC can be calculated from the integral of all cloud droplets (n(r)), their volume (4/3∙π∙r3) and the density of water ρ, i.e.
LWC = ∫ n(r) ∙ρH2O ∙4/3∙π∙r3∙dr (2).
For large Mie extinction (2∙π∙r/λ >> 1, λ being the wavelength), which is justified since clouds appear (mostly) to be white in the solar spectrum, the volume extinction coefficient (Qext) is the integral Qext over all radii, i.e. Qext = ∫ n(r)∙2∙π∙r2 ∙dr (3), with the cloud optical depth being τc = Qext ∙h.
Using the definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_drop_effective_radius) of the effective radius (re) re = [∫π∙r3∙dr]/[∫π∙r2∙dr] (5), inserting all equations into (1) and rearranging, one obtains Equation (10) in the text.
- 12: how sensitive are results to the chosen thresholds?
Our response: The cloud mask is designed in a way to create a series of binary states, cloudy or clear. The calculated cloud fraction depends less on the exact threshold used (in our case 0.8), but more on the window size chosen for the moving average. The algorithm calculates a cloud fraction by averaging the binary cloud mask, and comparison with concurrent cloud camera retrievals showed that 60 minutes was a reasonable averaging time to use, when averaging a cloud mask create at one minute resolution. However, the algorithm is limited by the viewing angle of the respective PV system, so it can be inaccurate when there are many clouds on the horizon, for instance.
- Line 344. I do not understand how a PV setup sees the whole sky. Please clarify.
Our response: We decided to end this sentence after “cloud fraction.”, otherwise we agree that it is confusing.
- Figure 8: The 15-min averages have an almost twice as large bias compared to the 1-min data. Is this because the added measurements are so much worse?
Our response: As discussed above in the response to the first referee, this is due to poor performance of the calibration algorithm in this case. If the calibration algorithm performs poorly, large biases can be expected. It has also been checked whether the presence of erroneous data could lead to this, however this affects the RMSE more than the bias (as discussed in the first response).
If these points are addressed, I think the authors provide a nice basis for future work on this topic. I am glad that their results are based on physics.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/amt-2022-335-AC2
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AC2: 'Reply on RC2', James Barry, 03 Jul 2023
Status: closed
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RC1: 'Comment on amt-2022-335', Anonymous Referee #1, 12 May 2023
This paper presents a method to calculate the global irradiance at the surface and some atmospheric properties using photovoltaic panels. To achieve this, the inversion algorithm accommodates both a description of the hardware and one of the characteristic state of the atmosphere.
I found the article very well written, clear in exposition and scientifically correct in its premises, logical development and description of results. But at the same time it is by no means easy to digest. The text as a whole is very complex, with constant cross-references between one section and the next, and I am not sure it is easily approached by the average reader. This is due to the need to describe all those components of the experiment that determine, at the end of the chain, the final accuracy of the inversion.
In another situation, with another article, I would have requested the authors to streamline the text and make it easier for a wider audience to understand. In this case, however, it is clear to me that this is not easy, given the experimental complexity of the task the authors are facing.
So, as far as I am concerned, I am asking for minor revisions. These are mostly non-critical changes but should add some additional detail regarding the setup of the simulations and the reach and the description of the results.
General considerations after reading the full text- It is surprising that the mean bias error increases with wider temporal aggregations. Can the authors comment on this?
- I assume that the efficiency of the photovoltaic modules is highest in clear sky conditions and lowest in overcast conditions. If correct, how does the lower efficiency relate to the accuracy of the derived cloud optical light extinction? Is it a linear relationship?
- COD_PV is verified (at least in my eyes it is not a validation) with the values of COSMO and APOLLO_NG. But if I am not mistaken, COSMO and APOLLO_NG are at the same time the source of some critical inversion inputs. In this sense it is more of a verification than a validation. Since there are now established methods for determining even the optical thickness of clouds from ground-based measurements (e.g., www.atmos-meas-tech.net/8/1361/2015/), I wonder if it is not worth trying to find some stations in the area of interest that provide true validation as independent.
Specific comments
Abstract, L 7: it is stated that results on COD and AOD will be presented. While several scatterplots are presented and discussed for COD in the text, I found no mention of any retrieval of AOD. One might guess that the results with COD<2 contain, within them, also those of AOD. If true, then the text of the abstract is misleading, as one would expect a retrieval of atmospheric opacity directly due to aerosols. This would probably explain why, for the generation of LUTs with MYSTIC, there is no additional dimension referring to aerosols.
Introduction, L50 and ff: Can the authors add a sentence or two summurazing the accuracy of the cited methods?P3 L73: what is the reasoning behind the 5 Wm-2 desired threshold?
P5 L139-142: "It can be shown using the diode model [see for instance Sauer (1994); Abe et al. (2020)] that the maximum power point (MPP) current generated by a PV module is linearly dependent on the incident irradiance, and only very weakly dependent on temperature."
Surprising. But still no info on the nature of the MPP-irradiance under overcast skies.Eq.1 and 2: even if obvious, \$tau is not introduced in the text. This also leaves the room open for me to ask how \$tau infleunces Eq.1 and 2. Is \$tau role linear on non-linear?
How about a direct aerosol radiative effect at play? Is this embedded in the simulations based on the OPAC database?
P14 L 330 : AOD = 0.01 and AOD = 1. What is the typical AOD for dust events reaching Central Europe?
P14 Section 2.3.5: I have two questions with respect to the setup of MYSTIC and its range of application.
(1) why wasn't MYSTIC also equipped with an additional dimension of AOD? I would expect that, especially in intermediate situations of broken cloudiness, the presence of aerosols may not only change the intensity of irradiance but also its spectral behavior. The latter is precisely identified by the authors as one of the factors contributing to the inversion uncertainty.
(2) Later on in the text, Table 9 shows the limits of applicability of MYSTIC, but in the main text there is no dicussion on the reasons why exaclty those values are reported.P17 L 392: which overlap scheme for clouds? Can the authors be more specific on this point?
P22 onward, Tables reporting biases: (1) can the authors add to the captions the information on the asterisk purpose, so that the reader does not have to look through the text? (2) Would it be informative to report also these values expressed in %?
Spotted typos
P14 L 329: lookup table
P14 L 341: \citep instead of \cite for Crnivec and Mayer 2019Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/amt-2022-335-RC1 -
AC1: 'Reply on RC1', James Barry, 03 Jul 2023
This paper presents a method to calculate the global irradiance at the surface and some atmospheric properties using photovoltaic panels. To achieve this, the inversion algorithm accommodates both a description of the hardware and one of the characteristic state of the atmosphere.
I found the article very well written, clear in exposition and scientifically correct in its premises, logical development and description of results. But at the same time it is by no means easy to digest. The text as a whole is very complex, with constant cross-references between one section and the next, and I am not sure it is easily approached by the average reader. This is due to the need to describe all those components of the experiment that determine, at the end of the chain, the final accuracy of the inversion.
In another situation, with another article, I would have requested the authors to streamline the text and make it easier for a wider audience to understand. In this case, however, it is clear to me that this is not easy, given the experimental complexity of the task the authors are facing.
So, as far as I am concerned, I am asking for minor revisions. These are mostly non-critical changes but should add some additional detail regarding the setup of the simulations and the reach and the description of the results.
General considerations after reading the full text
- It is surprising that the mean bias error increases with wider temporal aggregations. Can the authors comment on this?
Our response: Indeed, one would expect the bias to increase with coarser time resolution. In our case, the opposite effect is seen, which is due to the bias being dominated by errors in the calibration procedure. Even though the calibration itself is always performed with 15-minute data under clear sky conditions, the calibration algorithm performs better when taking high-resolution data that has been aggregated to 15 minutes. One reason for this is simply that the AÜW measurements of PV power every 15 minutes are based on energy meter readings for the last 15 minutes, which were shifted by 7.5 minutes, as described in section 3.1. This was done in order to bring different data sources with different aggregation procedures into alignment. Using the 1 Hz data leads to better 15 minute averages, and thus more accurate calibration.
Another reason could be that certain outliers in the 15-minute data should have been excluded from the inversion (see the points forming horizontal lines in Figure 6). We checked this and found that this would improve the RMSE, but not the bias, which indeed comes from certain systems with poor calibration. For completeness, these erroneous values are excluded, and the results recalculated.
- I assume that the efficiency of the photovoltaic modules is highest in clear sky conditions and lowest in overcast conditions. If correct, how does the lower efficiency relate to the accuracy of the derived cloud optical light extinction? Is it a linear relationship?
Our response: We fully appreciate the question! The efficiency of a solar cell is a function of both irradiance and temperature, and can be shown to be logarithmically proportional to irradiance and linearly proportional to temperature. In that sense any inaccuracies in the PV model parameters will have a larger effect in the inverted irradiance under low light conditions. Indeed, this is the main source of error in the retrievals – the more parameters used to model the PV power the greater the error in the inverted irradiance.
- COD_PV is verified (at least in my eyes it is not a validation) with the values of COSMO and APOLLO_NG. But if I am not mistaken, COSMO and APOLLO_NG are at the same time the source of some critical inversion inputs. In this sense it is more of a verification than a validation. Since there are now established methods for determining even the optical thickness of clouds from ground-based measurements (e.g., www.atmos-meas-tech.net/8/1361/2015/), I wonder if it is not worth trying to find some stations in the area of interest that provide true validation as independent.
Our response: That is partly correct, the inverted COD is not “validated” with COSMO and APOLLO_NG but rather simply compared to the COD from those sources. APOLLO_NG is however not used as input, but COSMO is, specifically the atmospheric composition from COSMO is used for the radiative transfer simulations.
Indeed, it would be more appropriate to validate the PV-based COD with another ground-based measurement, however to our knowledge there were no appropriate meteorological stations in the area that could have been used for this purpose. Although there are several DWD stations in the area (in Kempten, Oberstdorf and Hohenpeissenberg), these provide information on irradiance (direct and diffuse), but not on cloud optical properties (see Becker and Behrens, 2012). Thus, a true validation would have to be done for another dataset with PV systems closer to a measurement station that has ground-based retrievals of COD. This will be done in future field experiments.
Specific comments
Abstract, L 7: it is stated that results on COD and AOD will be presented. While several scatterplots are presented and discussed for COD in the text, I found no mention of any retrieval of AOD. One might guess that the results with COD<2 contain, within them, also those of AOD. If true, then the text of the abstract is misleading, as one would expect a retrieval of atmospheric opacity directly due to aerosols. This would probably explain why, for the generation of LUTs with MYSTIC, there is no additional dimension referring to aerosols.Our response: We agree that this could be seen as misleading. In this paper, the retrieval of AOD was not explicitly discussed, since the results obtained with this method show large biases due calibration error, coupled with the very small AOD in the Allgäu region (as discussed in the paragraph starting in L333). However, the retrievals of GHI under clear sky conditions implicitly contain AOD, since the optical depth is used in this case as a proxy to “reverse transpose” the tilted irradiance to horizontal irradiance. Perhaps this was not clearly communicated. If one looks at the schematic diagram in Figure 2, in order to retrieve GHI under clear sky conditions the algorithm first finds the AOD and then uses the 2D LUT to retrieve the direct and diffuse components, adding up to the GHI.
Introduction, L50 and ff: Can the authors add a sentence or two summarizing the accuracy of the cited methods?
Our response. The method described in Engerer and Mills (2014) use a PV-based clear sky index and can achieve an MBE of 1.09% and a mean absolute percentage error (MAPE) of 4.1% for the PV power output under clear sky conditions, but the accuracy diminishes for partly cloudy skies, as expected (reaching up to 50% MAPE). Killinger et al. (2016) achieve an MBE of between -3.9% and -9.8% for the GHI, depending on the empirical model used for irradiance transposition. Marion and Smith (2017) achieve an MBE for the GHI of within ±1.5% using south-facing PV modules at 10°, 25° and 40° tilt angles. Halilovic et al. (2019) use an analytical method for the reverse transposition of GTI to GHI and achieve an MBE of between 0.1% and 2.1% for the resulting GHI, using data from silicon reference cell measurements at different tile and azimuth angles.
P3 L73: what is the reasoning behind the 5 Wm-2 desired threshold?
Our response: as discussed in the second paragraph of the introduction (L31-L49), state-of-the art satellite data has a mean bias of the order of 5 W m-2. In addition, this level of accuracy corresponds to the target accuracy for global radiation measurements as part of the Baseline Surface Radiation Network, which was established within the frame of the World Climate Research Programme (McArthur, 2005). In that sense it would be desirable to reach this level of accuracy. However, even if this is not achieved, ground-based irradiance measurements and/or retrievals have the added advantage of superior spatiotemporal resolution, if the necessary data is available.
P5 L139-142: “It can be shown using the diode model [see for instance Sauer (1994); Abe et al. (2020)] that the maximum power point (MPP) current generated by a PV module is linearly dependent on the incident irradiance, and only very weakly dependent on temperature.”
Surprising. But still no info on the nature of the MPP-irradiance under overcast skies.Our response: It is important here to distinguish between current and voltage. In this work the power was used as the data source for inversion, which leads to the added complication that although MPP current is linearly proportional to irradiance, the MPP voltage is logarithmically proportional to irradiance, so that the overall efficiency also shows such a logarithmic dependence. The MPP power is of course strongly dependent on temperature, but this comes from the voltage, not the current – the latter has only a very weak dependence on temperature.
Eq.1 and 2: even if obvious, \$tau is not introduced in the text. This also leaves the room open for me to ask how \$tau infleunces Eq.1 and 2. Is \$tau role linear on non-linear?
Our response: This is corrected for. $\tau$ is simply a subscript indicating that an optical model has been employed to account for absorption and reflection by the glass surface of the PV module. Its effect is largely dependent on the angle of incidence, as discussed in Appendix A2. The final inverted GHI to be compared with other sources is then defined in Eq. 8 as the irradiance “above” the glass surface, i.e., the optical model must also be taken into account in the inversion.
How about a direct aerosol radiative effect at play? Is this embedded in the simulations based on the OPAC database?
Our response: Aerosols are considered in different parts of the model chain. For the forward model calibration (PVCAL) under clear sky conditions, the Aeronet data from the Hochschule Kempten is used to find the Ångstrom parameters, which are then combined with the OPAC data base (using the continental average setting) to obtain an accurate irradiance proxy for calibration. For the inversion, the Aeronet data and corresponding Ångstrom parameters are not used, however the OPAC setting remains. This means that there is implicit aerosol information on aerosol type in both the AOD and COD lookup tables.
P14 L 330 : AOD = 0.01 and AOD = 1. What is the typical AOD for dust events reaching Central Europe?
Our response: The typical dust event reaching Europe does not have such a high AOD, but is rather characterised by small values of the Ångstrom exponent less than 1, indicating the presence of coarser dust particles. For example, one study of the climatology of dust events found a mean AOD of 0.155, 0.32 and 0.122 for dust plumes in southern, central and northern Europe (Mandija et al., 2018). Indeed, during the time between September 2018 and July 2019, the AOD at 500nm measured by the AERONET station on the rooftop of the Hochschule Kempten did not exceed 0.5. Just before the second measurement campaign, on the 25th and 26th of June 2019, a dust event hit Europe. In this case the loglinear fit from AERONET data shows an Ångstrom exponent of around 0.6, indicating the presence of dust particles. However, the AOD on these days was only about 0.23 at 500nm.
P14 Section 2.3.5: I have two questions with respect to the setup of MYSTIC and its range of application.
(1) why wasn’t MYSTIC also equipped with an additional dimension of AOD? I would expect that, especially in intermediate situations of broken cloudiness, the presence of aerosols may not only change the intensity of irradiance but also its spectral behaviour. The latter is precisely identified by the authors as one of the factors contributing to the inversion uncertainty.Our response: Firstly, one must understand that the MYSTIC lookup table (based on 3D simulations) was simply used to convert the inverted tilted irradiance (GTI) to horizontal irradiance (GHI) under broken cloud conditions. Extensive sensitivity studies were carried out to understand the dependence of the relationship between tilted and horizontal irradiance on different atmospheric parameters such as AOD, albedo, liquid water content, etc. It turns out that AOD has no significant influence on this relationship, and that the most important parameters are the system geometry, sun position and the cloud fraction. The AOD was used in the context of the DISORT-based lookup table under clear sky conditions, in order to extract the GHI.
(2) Later on in the text, Table 9 shows the limits of applicability of MYSTIC, but in the main text there is no discussion on the reasons why exactly those values are reported.Our response: There are three major reasons for the choice of limits of the MYSTIC LUT. Firstly, despite several optimisations like the reduction of the number of photons used for the Monte Carlo simulations, the computational demand for calculating the LUT is high. For this reason, 20 degrees was chosen as the lower limit for the SZA, since in the latitudes under investigation no smaller values occur. Similar considerations apply to the tilt angle of PV panels – in Allgäu, Germany one rarely encounters title angles larger than 50 degrees.
The second limiting factor relates to the derivation of a cloud mask and cloud fraction from the radiation measurements (see Eq. 12 in the text). Firstly, this is only possible when there is direct line of sight between the sun and the module or sensor, which limits the relative azimuth angle between the sun and the PV panel. Secondly, the derivation of a cloud fraction from temporally resolved radiation measurements becomes unprecise at large SZAs for geometrical reasons, so that the upper limit of the SZA was set to 60 degrees.
Finally, the cloud fraction limits are determined by two factors: Firstly, the LUT model was developed and tested for partly cloudy situations. The special cases of 0% and 100% cloud fraction were considered separately with the DISORT-based LUTs, as other parameters like AOD and COD become relevant here. Secondly, the exact cloud fraction limits (0.13 and 0.82) given in table 9 are constrained by the available cloud scenes from LES simulations.
P17 L 392: which overlap scheme for clouds? Can the authors be more specific on this point?
Our response: For comparison with the cloud optical depths extracted from the PV systems, a two-dimensional COD field must be computed from the three-dimensional cloud variables generated by the COSMO model. For each grid cell, a cloud fraction variable in COSMO indicates which fraction of the cell is covered by clouds. To derive a vertically integrated COD we need to make an assumption as to how these clouds overlap in a model column. Following Scheck et al. (2018), we adopt the often used random-maximum cloud overlap assumption and employ the method of Matricardi (2005) to compute for each model column the vertically integrated COD for a number of subcolumns. From these subcolumn values we derive a mean COD for the cloudy part of the column. A total COD is then computed as the average of the column mean COD over 5 by 5 columns centred around the column containing the relevant ground station.
P22 onward, Tables reporting biases: (1) can the authors add to the captions the information on the asterisk purpose, so that the reader does not have to look through the text? (2) Would it be informative to report also these values expressed in %?
Our response: This is now corrected for in the text, and both RMSE and MBE are expressed in %.
Spotted typos
P14 L 329: lookup table
P14 L 341: \citep instead of \cite for Crnivec and Mayer 2019Our response: these two typos are corrected in the text.
References
Becker, R. and Behrens, K.: Quality assessment of heterogeneous surface radiation network data, Adv. Sci. Res., 8, 93–97, https://doi.org/10.5194/asr-8-93-2012, 2012.
Engerer, N. A. and Mills, F. P.: KPV: A clear-sky index for photovoltaics, Solar Energy, 105, 679–693, https://doi.org/10.1016/J.SOLENER.2014.04.019, 2014.
Halilovic, S., Bright, J. M., Herzberg, W., and Killinger, S.: An analytical approach for estimating the global horizontal from the global tilted irradiance, Solar Energy, 188, 1042–1053, https://doi.org/10.1016/J.SOLENER.2019.06.027, 2019.
Killinger, S., Braam, F., Müller, B., Wille-Haussmann, B., and McKenna, R.: Projection of power generation between differently-oriented PV systems, Solar Energy, 136, 153–165, https://doi.org/10.1016/J.SOLENER.2016.06.075, 2016.
Mandija, F., Chavez-Perez, V. M., Nieto, R., Sicard, M., Danylevsky, V., Añel, J. A., and Gimeno, L.: The climatology of dust events over the European continent using data of the BSC-DREAM8b model, Atmos Res, 209, 144–162, https://doi.org/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.atmosres.2018.03.006, 2018.
Matricardi, M.: The inclusion of aerosols and clouds in RTIASI, the ECMWF fast radiative transfer model for the infrared atmospheric sounding interferometer., https://doi.org/10.21957/1krvb28ql, 2005.
McArthur, L. J. B.: Baseline Surface Radiation Network (BSRN). Operations Manual Version 2.1, Downsview, Ontario, 2005.
Scheck, L., Weissmann, M., and Mayer, B.: Efficient Methods to Account for Cloud-Top Inclination and Cloud Overlap in Synthetic Visible Satellite Images Efficient Methods to Account for Cloud-Top Inclination and Cloud Overlap in Synthetic Visible Satellite Images, 35, 665–685, https://doi.org/10.1175/JTECH-D-17-0057.1, 2018.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/amt-2022-335-AC1
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RC2: 'Comment on amt-2022-335', Anonymous Referee #2, 17 May 2023
This is an interesting study that addresses a very relevant topic, namely the use of PV as a surrogate radiation measurement device to acquire a much larger spatial coverage than the current relatively sparse coverage of radiation measurement devices.
In my view, the work is very well done in terms of approach and analysis. My comments merely address the presentation and availability of software and data. These points should be easily addressed hence I have suggested minor revisions.
I have a couple of issues that I would like to point out. First concerning open sciences and the lack thereof in the review process. This maybe more a complaint to AMT than to the authors' although I would also encourage them to embrace open science a bit more.
1. This review process cannot be done properly if the authors provide their data in a closed github repository, for which the anonymous reviewers need to reveal themselves in order to see the software. This goes against my definition of open science in my view, and in my view should be prohibited by the journal. I do not think this level of secrecy is constructive nor necessary.
2. In line with the previous comments. It would be nice if all software is made available open source, because from the paper it is not entirely clear what are datasets and what are tools that the readers can use themselves to reproduce or slightly alter the setups. Since the respository is closed, the reviewers cannot check.
Then concerning the manuscript:
1. I would like the authors to reflect more about the feasibilty of this endeavor for operational use. They have tested this for a well designed campaign / setup, but to me it is still a bit unclear whether the authors, based on their findings, expect this to be a realistic road to operational use. They are very careful in their comments in 588, and I would like to challenge them to be a bit more outspoken.
2. Table 9. I would like the authors to comment a bit more on the restrictions presented in the _limits_ column. Are these very restrictive? How much does this influence potential operational use in the future?
3. I find it a little worrying that the authors base their weather model data on a model that according to their own comments went into retiring in 2021. Why not base the results on ICON? If this ever should be come a method for operational use it makes a lot more sense to compare it against the local state of the art.
4. Eq. 10: what is the origin of this equation and what is the physics behind it?
5. Eq. 12: how sensitive are results to the chosen thresholds?
6. Line 344. I do not understand how a PV setup sees the whole sky. Please clarify.
7. Figure 8: The 15-min averages have an almost twice as large bias compared to the 1-min data. Is this because the added measurements are so much worse?
If these points are addressed, I think the authors provide a nice basis for future work on this topic. I am glad that their results are based on physics.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/amt-2022-335-RC2 -
AC2: 'Reply on RC2', James Barry, 03 Jul 2023
This is an interesting study that addresses a very relevant topic, namely the use of PV as a surrogate radiation measurement device to acquire a much larger spatial coverage than the current relatively sparse coverage of radiation measurement devices.
In my view, the work is very well done in terms of approach and analysis. My comments merely address the presentation and availability of software and data. These points should be easily addressed hence I have suggested minor revisions.
I have a couple of issues that I would like to point out. First concerning open sciences and the lack thereof in the review process. This maybe more a complaint to AMT than to the authors although I would also encourage them to embrace open science a bit more.
- This review process cannot be done properly if the authors provide their data in a closed github repository, for which the anonymous reviewers need to reveal themselves in order to see the software. This goes against my definition of open science in my view, and in my view should be prohibited by the journal. I do not think this level of secrecy is constructive nor necessary.
- In line with the previous comments. It would be nice if all software is made available open source, because from the paper it is not entirely clear what are datasets and what are tools that the readers can use themselves to reproduce or slightly alter the setups. Since the repository is closed, the reviewers cannot check.
Our response: The software will be made open source once the manuscript is published. The decision to wait until publication was approved by the journal.
Then concerning the manuscript:
- I would like the authors to reflect more about the feasibility of this endeavour for operational use. They have tested this for a well-designed campaign / setup, but to me it is still a bit unclear whether the authors, based on their findings, expect this to be a realistic road to operational use. They are very careful in their comments in 588, and I would like to challenge them to be a bit more outspoken.
Our response: The algorithm presented here is simply the first step in using PV data as an input for data assimilation in weather models. It is clear from the work that this is feasible, however as pointed out, moving towards operational use would require several further steps. The largest source of bias comes from the calibration step, in particular the effect of temperature. Access to direct current (DC) data on the inverter level would allow a much more accurate extraction of the irradiance, without the confounding effect of temperature, since the dependence of MPP current on temperature is an order of magnitude smaller than that of MPP voltage and power. Since inverter data is commonly available in industry, this should be possible provided one has the legal right to access the data. Additionally, the data pre-processing needs to be automated. For instance, one needs to exclude PV systems and/or data subsets that do not meet certain criteria such as shading of PV modules or inverter clipping. This could be done by developing a hybrid approach using both physical modelling and artificial intelligence (AI) algorithms for pattern recognition. In addition, the calibration procedure itself could be augmented with AI, to find the unknown parameters more effectively. Once these aspects are overcome and appropriate agreements with industry partners are made for access to the data, there should be nothing standing in the way of operational use.
- Table 9. I would like the authors to comment a bit more on the restrictions presented in the _limits_ column. Are these very restrictive? How much does this influence potential operational use in the future?
Our response: This is discussed in more detail in the response to referee 1. As shown in Figure 2 in the preprint (this figure is updated to make it more explicit, and the label for DISORT is changed to 1D LUT), the algorithm uses different lookup tables depending on the prevailing conditions. For more stable weather conditions such as clear or cloudy skies, the DISORT-based LUT is used for AOD or COD, whereas for broken cloud conditions the MYSTIC LUT is used, but in this case only to convert tilted to horizontal irradiance. The limits for the MYSTIC LUT were also chosen to reduce computational time and could be extended slightly, with regards the SZA and tilt angles. For operational use, the data would be separated based on cloud fraction, and one would decide whether to use either the DISORT or MYSTIC LUTs on a case-by-case basis. This would then dictate exactly which limits are chosen for the MYSTIC 3D LUT.
- I find it a little worrying that the authors base their weather model data on a model that according to their own comments went into retiring in 2021. Why not base the results on ICON? If this ever should become a method for operational use it makes a lot more sense to compare it against the local state of the art.
Our response: That is correct, however the data made available by the DWD for validation is from the COSMO model, since at the time of the measurement campaigns this model was the state of the art at the German weather centre.
- 10: what is the origin of this equation and what is the physics behind it?
Our response: The liquid water content (LWC) of a cloud describes the mass of water droplets per unit volume, and the liquid water path (LWP) is the integral of the LWC over the height of the cloud, i.e. LWP = LWC∙h (1) with h being der vertical extension of the cloud. The LWC can be calculated from the integral of all cloud droplets (n(r)), their volume (4/3∙π∙r3) and the density of water ρ, i.e.
LWC = ∫ n(r) ∙ρH2O ∙4/3∙π∙r3∙dr (2).
For large Mie extinction (2∙π∙r/λ >> 1, λ being the wavelength), which is justified since clouds appear (mostly) to be white in the solar spectrum, the volume extinction coefficient (Qext) is the integral Qext over all radii, i.e. Qext = ∫ n(r)∙2∙π∙r2 ∙dr (3), with the cloud optical depth being τc = Qext ∙h.
Using the definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_drop_effective_radius) of the effective radius (re) re = [∫π∙r3∙dr]/[∫π∙r2∙dr] (5), inserting all equations into (1) and rearranging, one obtains Equation (10) in the text.
- 12: how sensitive are results to the chosen thresholds?
Our response: The cloud mask is designed in a way to create a series of binary states, cloudy or clear. The calculated cloud fraction depends less on the exact threshold used (in our case 0.8), but more on the window size chosen for the moving average. The algorithm calculates a cloud fraction by averaging the binary cloud mask, and comparison with concurrent cloud camera retrievals showed that 60 minutes was a reasonable averaging time to use, when averaging a cloud mask create at one minute resolution. However, the algorithm is limited by the viewing angle of the respective PV system, so it can be inaccurate when there are many clouds on the horizon, for instance.
- Line 344. I do not understand how a PV setup sees the whole sky. Please clarify.
Our response: We decided to end this sentence after “cloud fraction.”, otherwise we agree that it is confusing.
- Figure 8: The 15-min averages have an almost twice as large bias compared to the 1-min data. Is this because the added measurements are so much worse?
Our response: As discussed above in the response to the first referee, this is due to poor performance of the calibration algorithm in this case. If the calibration algorithm performs poorly, large biases can be expected. It has also been checked whether the presence of erroneous data could lead to this, however this affects the RMSE more than the bias (as discussed in the first response).
If these points are addressed, I think the authors provide a nice basis for future work on this topic. I am glad that their results are based on physics.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/amt-2022-335-AC2
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AC2: 'Reply on RC2', James Barry, 03 Jul 2023
James Barry et al.
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Datasets for "Irradiance and cloud optical properties from solar photovoltaic systems" James Barry, Stefanie Meilinger, Klaus Pfeilsticker, Anna Herman-Czezuch, Nicola Kimiaie, Christopher Schirrmeister, Rone Yousif, Tina Buchmann, Johannes Grabenstein, Hartwig Deneke, Jonas Witthuhn, Claudia Emde, Felix Gödde, Bernhard Mayer, Leonhard Scheck, Marion Schroedter-Homscheidt, Philipp Hofbauer, and Matthias Struck https://zenodo.org/record/7628155#.Y-yFTh_MJD8
James Barry et al.
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