Articles | Volume 17, issue 7
https://doi.org/10.5194/amt-17-1851-2024
© Author(s) 2024. This work is distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
Effects of clouds and aerosols on downwelling surface solar irradiance nowcasting and short-term forecasting
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- Final revised paper (published on 03 Apr 2024)
- Preprint (discussion started on 12 Jul 2023)
Interactive discussion
Status: closed
Comment types: AC – author | RC – referee | CC – community | EC – editor | CEC – chief editor
| : Report abuse
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RC1: 'Comment on amt-2023-110', Anonymous Referee #1, 06 Sep 2023
- AC1: 'Reply on RC1', Kyriakoula Papachristopoulou, 27 Dec 2023
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RC2: 'Comment on amt-2023-110', Anonymous Referee #2, 07 Sep 2023
- AC2: 'Reply on RC2', Kyriakoula Papachristopoulou, 27 Dec 2023
Peer review completion
AR – Author's response | RR – Referee report | ED – Editor decision | EF – Editorial file upload
AR by Kyriakoula Papachristopoulou on behalf of the Authors (03 Jan 2024)
Author's response
Author's tracked changes
Manuscript
ED: Referee Nomination & Report Request started (05 Jan 2024) by Oleg Dubovik
RR by Anonymous Referee #3 (06 Jan 2024)
RR by Anonymous Referee #1 (16 Jan 2024)
ED: Publish as is (16 Jan 2024) by Oleg Dubovik
AR by Kyriakoula Papachristopoulou on behalf of the Authors (18 Jan 2024)
The study reflects the lack of adequate reflection on previous work and literature in this area. However, this should be the basis and first step of developments and publications. This lack leads to misleading interpretations of the results and introduction of concepts as novel, which are in contrast well known. I cannot recommend this manuscript for publication in the current form. Please see the detailed comments for further information. I can not recommend the manuscript for publication, see comments below. However, the evaluation results might motivate the publication of the manuscript after a proper major revision.
Major comments/concerns:
L105 and others:
The author uses “~16M combinations of simulated GHI at the earth’s surface”. However, several concepts exist with smarter solutions, e.g. with the hybrid eigenvector concept the amount of needed RTM calculations can be reduced to several hundred, also the good old NREL etc. approximations works well, see https://doi.org/10.1016/j.rse.2009.01.012 or https://doi.org/10.3390/rs4030622 and references therein for further details. A respective discussion or proof of the benefits of the approach presented in the manuscript is missing. Thus, it is not clear why this algorithm is needed and what the benefits compared to other well established methods are.
L 125 “….Wdata (Bhartia, 2012) based climatology) and surface albedo (GOME-2 database (Tilstra et al., 2017, 2021))
Several important aspects are not discussed which affects the accuracy of the product. Is the used SAL consistent with that used for COD ? Further, is the aerosol information used for the COD retrieval identical to those used for SIS ? Are the BRDF corrections for SAL and COT identical ? If not, what does that mean for the consistency of the product. Please note, in particular inconsistent SAL data can lead to a significant bias in SIS, this could be the reason for your bias and not the “sun obscuration”.
L137, Eq.1
The so called Cloud Modification Factor is the good old clear sky index or cloud coverage index (Cano et al), used in several EU projects and SAFs long ago, ranging from SODA, Satellight to Heliosat-3 and CM SAF. Respective references should be given. Further, by introducing this factor to correct bias resulting from COD they proof that the direct path (see https://doi.org/10.5194/amt-15-1537-2022 and references therein) is more favorable. It is not clear why the authors have chosen the indirect path.
L189:
Optical flow method “We apply Farnebäck”. Is Farneback still state of the art for SSI nowcasting ? In Urbich et al 2018 (https://doi.org/10.3390/rs10060955) evidence is given that TV-L1 outperforms Farnebäck. This finding is supported by other studies and the maths. TV-L1 is more robust concerning changes of the intensities. It is part of OpenCV and thus free software as well. Further, it is not enough to compare your nowcasting method to persistence. It should be compared with other methods as well, including state of the art NWP (see respective publications of the IEA framework). Within this scope the effect of changing intensities on the quality of the forecasts should be discussed. One of the first works in the area of solar surface irradiance (SSI) nowcasting can be traced back to Lorenz et al. (University of Oldenburg, now ISE) and others. These works should be cited and discussed as well.
L 315 “The interesting part is that the same case stands for the whole range of measured GHI, indicating that it is a general limitation of satellite that it cannot take into account clouds.” as well as L 334. “Cases with partial cloudiness and the sun obscured as seen from the ground sensor (almost total attenuation of direct irradiance) will be associated with low measured irradiance that cannot be captured by the model. This is the main reason of the overall model overestimation."
Misleading discussion and interpretation. The satellite can of course take into account clouds that obscure the sun. Else, all values would be clear sky values, or ? Let us assume a partly cloudy pixel with 50 % clear sky and 50 % cloudy sky, leading to an average cloudiness of 0.5. If only the sun obscured regions (100% cloud sky) are investigated you surely will find a bias, namely, an overestimation of SSI by the SAT retrieval, because the area average seen by the satellite is partly cloudy (50%). But statistically, there are also situation where the ground based station sees the sun (100% clear sky), but the satellite is partly cloudy sky (50%). On average there is an “error” cancelation of these effects. No figure or statistics are shown for situations where ground measurements see the sun, but the pixels are partly cloudy. Hence, there is no proof that the overall bias results from the “sun obscured” effect. In several studies bias values are reported for algorithms without sun obscuration correction, which are not significant or depending on the method positive or negative (see e.g. validation reports and publications of CM SAF, e.g. Uccarra et al, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.rse.2017.07.013). Thus, the cancellation of the “errors” induced by different viewing geometries seems to work well and they are several other reasons for the bias. Thus, your conclusion seems a bit hasty and misleading. You should check SAL, it is likely a source for your bias.
In addition, there already exists a lot of publications dealing with broken clouds, 3-D cloud effects or the uncertainties arising from the comparison between ground based and satellite based SSI. Please read them, discuss and cite them and clarify what your work adds to existing woks. In my opinion currently not much, beside misleading conclusions. Of course, for slant geometries the cloudiness is overestimated, but that is another story, which is not taken into account in your study. You will find respective articles, e.g. in the CM SAF publication list.
The aerosol study is well done, but also this part lacks a bit on discussion and citations concerning former works
Minor comments:
L54 ,”..considered as big data”. Please delete, it is not really big data compared to other fields….
L 47 “The availability of solar resources is primarily affected by clouds and aerosols (e.g., Fountoulakis et al., 2021; Papachristopoulou et al., 2022).”
This is misleading. In areas with low aerosol variability water vapor is much more important than AOD (as a climatology value works well there). Please add H20 as important variable.
L95 “SENSE2 is an operational system that produces fast estimates of GHI in real time every 15min, for a wide area including Europe and Middle East-North Africa (MENA)”
Please mention how the user can get these data.
L113: The aerosol model of Shettle is used, but no discussion of the limitation induced by the assumption of spherical aerosols is given.
L 140: Use of NWC SAF products: I did not understand the sense of this approach, why do you need NWC-SAF ?
L 145: Typical values for the effective radius (Reff = 10 μm) and the liquid water path (LWP = 1 g/m3 145 ) were used, given the unavailability of those data and their small impact on GHI"
This phrase is quite misleading. First of all there are algorithms available to derive Reff and LWP, further I would not say that the impact is small, in particular when considering ice clouds.
L 195: "Smart persistence": I find the term irritating, please delete it. Please clarify that this kind of persistence is typically used for SIS nowcast comparisons. Add some discussion and references of former works here as well.